Tue 28 Feb 2006
I’ll be honest with you. I sick of this Hackett/Brown feud. I need closure, and I don’t see anyone in Columbus or Washington contributing anything productive to that effort. So here’s an idea:
Schedule a Meet the Bloggers event. Brown and Hackett. They sit down and they work this crap out and we work this crap out and we get over it. Sure, they are both pissed, and sure they may not like each other, but hell… they are two grown-assed men that belong to the same party and they can sit down and work this stuff out like adults.
I want Brown to win. I think he can win. Things were said. Yes, things were done. But they were all words and we can get beyond words. We need to get to the point of action, and we won’t get there by ripping each other apart. People are dying right now, gang. Their lives deserve better than this trifling farce.
Yes, we’re only talking about 15% tops of voters that know or even care about this issue. But that’s a huge slice that will do serious damage to Brown’s efforts and dog him throughout the campaign. We need resolution. We need to get this damn primary behind us.
Brown avoided MTB in the past. He can’t afford to any longer. There’s too much static. For some the wounds are too deep. With this we’ll be able to have a good clearing of the air and put this behind us.
Let me know what you think.
not gonna happen. so let’s get over it…then it happens again and then what? i’m like jane and want off this crazy thing.
I think closure is needed, but I’m not optimistic. But I did add a link to this post in my most recent entry at Howard-Empowered.
I also posted much of the text of the article in last week’s Other Paper, about how “bloggers ruined Sherrod Brown’s month”.
Well, then Brown’s toast and Paul’s painted as a whiney b____ and both sides stock goes into the toilet.
Editor. No. Sorry. Brown is not worthy.
He needs to mend some fences. We have handed him the hammer, we have showed him where the fence is, and we have asked him to do it.
I don’t go in and clean up my kids room when I have told him to and he won’t.
I could give a damn about Brown. This isn’t about Brown. It’s about what we stand for and if it’s worth something more than some stupid antics by a bunch of dumb staffers.
Somebody’s got to stand up and speak for the Party. Is it Paul? He used to do so eloquently. If he wants to fight for his Party he’s got to do so even in the face of personal injury. Otherwise it’s meaningless.
If neither Paul nor Sherrod can be the better man than neither deserved to be Senator. If so, what does that say about us?
Doesn’t matter to me if they make up or not. I won’t vote for Brown AT ALL because of this. I’m one of those weird people who actually care about the character of people I vote for and Brown has shown he isn’t worth crap.
Here’s my totally upfront question, as someone who only recently started to even tune in to the Hackett/Brown thing in any detail, and who got pounded by a lot of people for my Kos diary saying that I don’t see jumping on board for Brown any time soon. I only said that he’s got my vote, but right now I’m working on other ways to be productive, and I got a lot of crap for it, for daring to suggest that Brown “owes” me anything.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/24/113615/646
My question is, to those who might know more, do you think that there are Brown supporters who see this same need for closure?
I’m with you, in the sense that Paul and Sherrod are the only two people on the planet with the power to handle this. One of them needs to step up, reach out and bury this thing.
I happen to think that it would serve all of us best if Sherrod’s the one to put his hand out. I also think that a MTB forum would be a good venue for that.
In October, maybe we’ll see them both on the stump together. That’s what we really need.
I don’t think that will ever happen either, nor do I think Sherrod would ever do a Meet the Bloggers with or without Paul Hackett.
I saw what happened on Kos, Renee and I knew what you were trying to do. I’ll never forget my first encounter with Armando, he asked me “are you a troll or are you stupid”…
By the time I saw it was over though I couldn’t help wondering how many of those who were giving you such a hard time actually lived in Ohio.
Well, if he won’t do it, than I wish him luck. He needs for everyone to get past this more than anyone. I’ve laid out a plan that would allow that to happen. Do it or don’t do it.
It takes real courage to sit down with your enemies and work out your differences. If we can’t do that then we don’t deserve to win and we won’t win.
Forgiving someone who has harmed you, who won’t admit it, and who doesn’t ask to be forgiven is never a good idea. You can work on the process of acceptance, which is good for your own health, but forgiving someone, in this case Sherrod Brown, who refuses to take responsibility for his own actions or inactions is cheap phony forgiveness and does no one any good at all.
And so, Sherrod Brown: All lines are open. Question is — are you adult enough to pick up the phone and dial Paul’s number.
[...] They touch upon (gloss over really) the primary debacle, but Brown stops fully short of giving those on the blogs and in the grassroots what they’ve been asking for. Sounds like the same old to me…damn. Even puts out the bogus “behind in polls” argument. I wish Jerry knew enough to ask him about the same poll that indicated Paul would pull ahead when both positive messages get out there. Sheesh. OH02 wants a MTB kiss and make up, which will never happen but would probably go south anyways. [...]
I’ll bring the recording equipment. I’ll come alone, to an undisclosed location, agreed upon by both parties. It can be a Meet The Bloggers [Fight Club]…
Fight The Bloggers!
i hereby recuse myself from this MTB as i am completely unacceptable to one of the parties. apparently i swear too much.
That’s very big of you Tim.
The Brown/Hackett feud is subtext for me. The part that’s important to me is that the Democratic leadership interferred in the process until Ohioans were robbed of a primary. If they really believed that Brown is the better candidate why did they have to force Hackett out?
Now the OPD has online “their” official slate. No mention of other candidates who are running, like Subodh Chandra for State AG…and I would assume no financial help for them either.
The Chair of our County Party was quoted in yesterday’s Dayton Daily as saying he had tried to persuade Hackett to run for CD03 (even though Hackett’s not a resident), yet the Chair made no mention of the two candidates we do have running for that spot. The impression it left was that those two don’t count, and I believe it undercut them.
I’m tired of the Democratic Party playing “Big Brother” and attempting to hijack my vote for their “approved” candidate. To me that doesn’t meet the test for democracy. So, do we deserve to win? Maybe we don’t.
Susan, I’m sick to death of that stuff too. That’s why I added the Subodh Chandra graphic link to HEP.
Actually, I did that before the ODP did their new banner. Now I feel like all the blogs who object to that stuff need a “hey, there’s other people running too” banner to counteract it.
Thing is, I really don’t know enough about the different races to say I support someone over someone else. I just don’t appreciate the party pretending that there isn’t a someone else.
I agree with you that that is a big problem. But it’s another battle. For now the Party leadership feels that it can dictate terms upon the rank and file. As of now they are correct. We need to strengthen our influence upon the Party leadership if we are going to change that. That means getting more involved with the County Party. That means promoting leaders who share your values. That means fighting those low level fights that get you to the Super Bowl.
A question, and I am neither a troll nor stupid. Is there a Democrat primary in May for the US Senate? I went online and found that there is a second name listed as running who is a dem. If there is, I intend to write someone in. Perhaps Paul Hackett. My little protest. In the general election, I will hold my nose, and vote for Brown.
The Dems in Hamilton County are so entrenched that I don’t see how we could ever get any power at the county level. I think we still have agreements not to run a candidate against certain Repubs in exchange for them agreeing to the same. Yuck.
We do not need closure. I hate the word. I’ve always felt it was used by people who wished they were brain surgeons and now feel good about themselves while being able to use a fancy medical term. I much prefer “incision” or even “cranial-rectal” and don’t even ask me what that means, I just made it up. On the contrary, we don’t need “closure” as the patient is still dying from a broken sacroiliac and post-partum ovaria. Once again, don’t ask. Why bother stitching him up when he needs major surgery anyways? Why do you want to put band-aids on a seriously terminal patient? This is no time for healing, indeed, the situation needs to get worse before it can get better. If anything it needs to get blown up even more. I applaud Paul for his one man battering ram, we just need a hundred times what he’s doing and maybe the Democratic Party will get there. This party needs to be shaken up and it looks like Hackett’s just getting warmed up. Good.
The problem is that the window for change has closed for most races except AG and Treasurer. If you want to facilitate change vote help Chandra and Quill.
I would have loved to have used the swiftboating story back when Paul was running for Senate, but he didn’t talk about that then. So now what?
If you really hate how things are working out get more involved and help take things back. I’m not seeing this pity Party as helping to do that.
PLUS, even if all you say is true, shouldn’t they be men about it and talk it out face to face? All this war by interview is the cowards way out. Sit down and talk it out.
Sometimes, women are better men about it than men are.
Very very true
Muffet, the Democratic Primary in Ohio is on May 2. The other Democrat running for Senate has stated that he believes gays should be put to death. You can write someone in, but your vote won’t count unless that person has filed papers to be a write-in candidate.
All sounds good and fair. Wish it would happen. Can’t see it happening.
In the meantime, I think a good focus of attention would be downticket races in 06. We have plenty of real work to do — and many of these are totally off ODP’s radar screen right now.
As it happens I am very involved in politics. I don’t believe that the Democratic leadership is correct. They may dictate terms to many, but an ever larger number is totally fed-up with being manipulated and with scare tactics (ooooo, vote for the Democrat or the Republican will get in!).
Too many Democrats already elected have demonstrated that they will not stand up for us. Too many Democrats already elected have demonstrated that they believe themselves to be kingmakers, not servants of the people. Changing the party is not going to happen when we continually do exactly what they want us to do. Working from the grassroots will show effect in time. But grass never grows too well under a big flat paving stone, and that’s what we’re running into. The big flat paving stones on top.
If the grassroots wants to wield political influence it’s going to have to have some political capitol. You get that through raising money or winning elections. You don’t get that by fighting against a member of the Party in a general election, no matter how much you hate that candidate. I want the grass roots to have political capitol to wield against the ODP in Columbus. That means I want us winning elections, including Sherrod Brown’s. So far that closest thing we have is the loss of Hackett in the 2nd special. That’s not enough. I want more.
Hackett helping Brown gives him a HUGE amount of political capitol. If he wants to change the Democratic Party he will understand that and cash in, just as Dean did in 2004.
My husband and I are active members of the Hamilton County Democratic Forum. The motto is “Change from the bottom up.” The way this party is run right now is “Control from the top down.”
There is a Dem who for real thinks gays should be put to death? Why doesn’t he join Blackwell?
Write in’s have to be filed? What happened to the people drafting someone?
What does PAUL have to gain from any of this?
Nothing that I see since he’s said he is not going to run for office in the future. He is now on the board of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans. He is actively working to help elect veterans. I got an email today asking for $ for the PAC.
Mr. Editor,
I very much respect your efforts. However, I think that Brown and Hackett must first come to an understanding IN PRIVATE. And what happens in private should stay that way. THEN, a joint MTB forum would be perfect for both men to outline the path forward. Candidate Brown could explain how he and his campaign will interact in a positive way with Ohio bloggers in the future. Hackett could explain how he will help in the “conversion” of independents and Republicans. After that, Ohio bloggers could take the lead in encouraging others on and offline to work for positive change.
Brown is not going to publicly acknowledge his campaign’s complicity in the “swiftboating”, nor, in the interests of electing a Democratic Senator, should he. Hackett probably isn’t going to get beyond this incident without Brown owning up in private.
Who should facilitate this private meeting? Who has the most to lose from the current situation? I’d say the new ODP chairman, Mr. Redfern. Who would Hackett respond to if they asked him to consider a meeting? Well, I was truly surprised to hear Chairman Dean refer to the way Hackett was treated as “skullduggery”, so if I had any influence on anybody (and I don’t) I’d start there. Mr. Tagaris? Jim Dean?
Sorry to butt in from Montana, but after 40 years in Ohio, I still want very badly to see good government restored in my native state.
Good ideas, Montana.
Alan, What did Howard Dean gain from helping John Kerry, even though Kerry ended up losing. It would seem a lot.
If Paul wants to be a force in the Democratic Party he needs to do what’s good for the Party, and not just what makes him feel good. I care about candidates, but I care more about taking territory on the political battlefield. Paul wins a lot of points if he is the better man and looks beyond his own situation.
Muffett, the e-mail I got today for the Vets PAC was not an ask for money, it was an ask to joing the mailing list.
Editor,
You mean like he did by keeping his word during the campaign?
I think Sherrod needs to step forward, privately, and figure things out with Paul. Paul is a formidable force on the campaign trail, and Sherrod sure needs him in the rural areas. But, Paul’s ideas aren’t the same as Sherrods’, so I don’t know how it would fly in the rural areas anyway.
Editor – What DID Howard Dean gain? A lot? Nada. And what did Kerry gain? Not enough? Most importantly, what did YOU Gain?
I HATE to answer a question with a question . . . but come on MAN!
What would Evil Editor say?
Unfortunately, I don’t think Dean gained a lot either, other than a pretty thankless job right now.
I’m sorry babycakes but I’m not really feeling this either. I mean in a perfect world yes maybe….but here..nahhh.
Anything coming out of the mouth of SB at this point is going to be fake condescending BS. He fuked it up. His true colors have been shown and it is what it is. He represents what this party wants (not the people) and they will get just what they have always gotten. Defeat. You can spread it around pretty flowers all you want…it is still shit.
I do agree Paul needs to step up. He has so much stregnth…the potential to be a real leader. Baby needs to grab the boys up and handle it. The see how they’ve done me Sherry shit was cute for a little bit…Time to make the next step. If he doesnt know what the next step is then he needs to shut up until he figures it out. The PAC thing is good, if thats what he wants then do it and quit bullshitting.
Editor – is Dan Lucas out of the Brown campaign? I heard he was and someone with the AFL-CIO was going to replace him.
Evil Editor, where are you? I agree with Harvard — what is best for Democrats in Ohio? That must be our over-arching concern.
Who cares? It’s over Johnny.
Paul Hackett is a footnote. Sherrod Brown is preparing for a career as a college professor. They way things are going we’ll get Strickland in and lose all the down ticket races, which means four years of a holding pattern. Chris Redern will get what he wished for: to Captain the dying husk that is what’s left of old labor party called the ODP.
Greenspan’s right. 2008 is the year of the 3rd Party and Ohio will usher it in. Hackett is a preecho of the message that will sweep through.
Maybe you should change your name to Glass Half Empty Editor.
Yeah, E.E. YOU rock on!
In the words of Hackett’s beloved Springsteen:
Bye-bye Johnny, Johnny bye-bye
You didn’t have to die
Song here: http://brucespringsteen.net/songs/JohnnyByeBye.html
But Evil Editor, is Subodh the answer?
http://www.chandraforohio.com/html/contribute.html
He is NOT a footnote, he is a lawyer, why would he ever be a teacher? (their pay sucks).
Chris Redfern, Captain of the SS Titanic!
PS: What the F is a ‘preecho’? You made that s up!
pre-echo… a hyphen would help. Like in Minority Report. An echo of an event that hasn’t happened yet.
And yes, Subodh is the answer. He’s the best hope for the ODP right now. I just wish his campaign was half as good as he is.
Here’s what I’d like–could we get a letter to the netroots from Subodh? I’ve got a graphic link to his site on Howard-Empowered, but I think it would be good if he could write an appeal in his own words, that those of us who want to support him could post wherever it is that we post diaries.
The other thing that would be really handy is, if Paul is going to be on the radio anyway, he could help spread the word about the We Believe! group and its upcoming rollout/press conference.
http://faithfulohio.blogspot.com/
It is a part of the big picture of challenging Ken Blackwell, which I get the sense Paul is still dedicated to doing.
WE BELIEVE! We are called as people of faith and loyal Americans to be
united in dialogue and action to say:
YES to justice for all
NO to prosperity for only a few;
YES to diverse religious expression
NO to self-righteous certainty;
YES to the common good
NO to discrimination against any of God’s people;
YES to the voice of religious traditions informing public policy
NO to crossing the lines that separate the institutions of Religion and Government
A lot of people agree that it’s about freaking time we had faith voices opposing the religious right garbage that’s going on in Ohio. But the new group is really going to need help getting their message out–and needs impressive numbers at this first event to get press to take notice.
Ahhh pre-echo . . . I will cite more subtle example of a pre-echo . . . the opening of “Babe I’m Gonna Leave You” by Led Zeppelin.
But Minority Report? With Tom Cruise? If only Tom will jump up and down on a sofa and proclaim his love for Sherry Brown! THAT would save him!
Wearing Thin: Hackett a Victim of Dems’ Disgusting Commitment to Winning in November…
From The Athens News: Wearing Thin: Hackett a victim of Dems’ disgusting commitment to winning in November The moderates and progressives who are all wound up about the party’s treatment of Democratic candidate Paul Hackett should calm down. Senate D…
MTB isn’t a fair forum. Why doesn’t everyone cool off for a couple of weeks, then get back to work. Pay attention to some other races, discuss some really important issues, like how much election fraud will the Ohio GOP perpetrate in November?
Move on, there’s nothing more to discuss about Brown.